When Mike Muir + Jello Biafra Debated Obscenity on ‘Donahue’

With the Aug. 18 death of legendary talk show host Phil Donahue, we were reminded of some of the rock-centric episodes the daytime host welcomed, including a 1990 episode based around the concern over indecency and obscenity in music.

While the episode primarily focused on Luther Campbell, the leader of rap outfit 2 Live Crew and the major debate on the obscenity from the group’s albums and live shows, Donahue gathered a panel of musicians, lawyers and special interest leaders to debate how we police what is and isn’t considered obscene.

As Donahue introduced the panel, he noted that Jello Biafra had been charged with distributing obscene material to minors through the artwork included on Dead Kennedys’ Frankenchrist posters.

When the host rolled his eyes describing the sexual nature of the poster, Biafra argued that “not everyone interpreted it that way.” At the time of the taping, Biafra had been cleared of charges in the case, but he revealed to Donahue that he didn’t reach that point without facing disruption in his life.

“It took about a year and a half out of my life. The police broke through a window near my front door and tore my house apart and went through my address book page by page comparing notes. I felt like I was in the Soviet Union two or three years ago or something,” explained Biafra, who also detailed that he was facing increasing difficulty getting his band’s albums into stores.

“free publicity does no good if the stores are afraid of getting attacked by a publicity hungry prosecutor or fundamentalist preacher or something like that,” said the singer, who also detailed all of his music, including ones that didn’t contain the “seven words you can’t say on TV” being stickered for 18+ audiences. “In other words, I have been blacklisted just like they did to people in the 1950s,” he concluded.

He also shared an anecdote about Ministry being charged $.03 per sticker by their label after their album at the time had been questioned about its suitability for younger audiences.

Who Else Guested on the Episode?

Wendy O. Williams, singer of The Plastmatics, was invited as she had fought charges in Cleveland for allegedly simulating a sex act onstage and making obscene motions during her show. The charges were eventually dropped, but Williams detailed police harassment including being beaten by officers who felt she was the devil incarnate for her actions onstage.

Donahue also invited Suicidal Tendencies’ Mike Muir, who at the time was facing an informal ban in California of playing to large groups over concern for his music’s lyrical content. He explained, “Basically you need a permit to play and it’s not attainable and we’ll leave it at that.”

The TV host also quizzed Muir about his visit from the Secret Service. “We have a song called ‘I Shot the Devil’ and they didn’t appreciate the lyrics and they came and made me fill out a 30-page thing and did a handwriting analysis thing. If I go to D.C., I’m supposed to tell them that I’m going there,” said the singer. Though it was alleged the song was about the assassination of the President, Muir argued that it was hyperbole and that people were assigning their own meanings.

As with many Donahue episodes, the audience also played a significant part. At one point, a woman in the crowd spoke of not wanting to expose her children to some of the material that was out there musically and questioned how she could keep her kids away from it. During this portion, Donahue played a portion of Bon Jovi’s “Living in Sin” video that had been popular at the time.

Muir later addressed her, stating, “Going back to what the lady said, the point is not whether somebody finds what they say obscene, it’s where do you draw the line. You show her one video and another video. I don’t want to see where you keep going and keep going and where does it go? That’s the whole point. Who is going to decide?”

READ MORE: Dee Snider Says ‘Cancel Culture’ Is Just a New Form of Censorship

The episode also featured Biafra taking down fellow panelist Bob DeMoss, who was representing the Focus on the Family organization and claiming that he’d been labeled a “devil worshipper” just because he’d written a song attacking the corruption of the Religious Right.

A Nod to Phil Donahue

While many talk shows are more celebrity-centric and promoting films, TV or music projects, Phil Donahue often had his daytime talk show addressing issues of the day. The show started in 1967 and ran through 1996. In 1970, the show received national syndication and remained a popular program for decades to come. It served as a model for many of the daytime talk shows that would come in the ’80s and ’90s, including Oprah, which became his primary competition.

After Donahue’s daytime talk run ended, he hosted a new self-titled talk show in 2002 on MSNBC that came seven years after his retirement. But the show didn’t last a year before it was canceled.

Over the course of his career, he received 20 Emmy Awards, including 10 for Outstanding Talk Show host. He received the Peabody Award in 1980 and was inducted into the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences Hall of Fame in 1993. Earlier this year, Donahue received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Joe Biden.

The talk show host died Sunday (Aug. 18) in Manhattan at the age of 88.

Mike Muir, Jello Biafra + Wendy O. Williams on Donahue (June 13, 1990)