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Untold Stories of China’s Fragmented Republic
Laszlo Montgomery is an American podcaster, content creator, and author, recognized for his extensive work on Chinese history through Teacup Media. He is the producer and host of popular podcasts such as The China History Podcast, The Chinese Sayings Podcast, and The China Vintage Hour, where he shares his deep knowledge of Chinese history and culture, gained over 30 years of experience in the China market.
In addition to his podcasting work, Montgomery has recently ventured into writing, with his latest book offering an in-depth exploration of China’s Warlord Era (1916-1928), published by Earnshaw Books. The book is a compilation of transcripts from his podcasts, presented in a way that makes complex historical events accessible to a wide audience. The book provides readers with a detailed understanding of the tumultuous period, focusing on both the historical context and the lives of the warlords who shaped this era. Montgomery’s work not only serves as a valuable resource for those interested in Chinese history but also aids non-native English speakers in improving their language skills by following along with his narrative.
What first inspired your deep interest in Chinese history, particularly the Warlord Era? Were there any specific events or historical figures that fascinated you and motivated you to explore the Warlord Era in such detail?
I’ve had a lifelong interest in world history going back to my childhood. By my late teens, after a healthy diet of East Asian historical novels, my interests narrowed to China and Japan. This, and the normalization of US-PRC relations in 1979, led me to switch my college major to Chinese history and Mandarin. As I began my formal studies, my interests in China continued to grow into a passion that has never left me after all these years. I’ve been producing The China History Podcast since 2010, and the Warlord Era was one of the most requested topics from my listeners. Compared to the sources I used, my take on the Warlord Era was somewhat generalized but contained all the most essential history of the time.
How did your experiences with the China History Podcast shape your approach to writing this book?
When Graham Earnshaw contacted me last year, 2023, about publishing the transcripts to the episodes, all we did was take the greatest hits from the past fourteen years of CHP shows, polish the text up, and turn them into books. Since they are transcripts for already-published audio podcasts, the process doesn’t involve much writing. For someone who isn’t that familiar with the Warlord Era, 1916-1928, this book will allow them to be the smartest one in the room with respect to the history of China’s warlord era.
How did you manage the vast amount of historical data and narratives while ensuring the book remained accessible to readers?
Well, that’s the whole “secret sauce” of the China History Podcast. I worked as a sales and marketing guy for four Chinese companies over the arc of my career. All four sold consumer products to the mass market. This gave me a very keen appreciation for the size of mass market versus selling to the luxury and high-end market. When history podcasting started to take off in 2008-2009, I saw how popular this category was and how much mass appeal there was outside of academia for this kind of content. I’m fine listening to a boring academic lecture from a brand-name professor or China expert. But as the old Chinese saying goes, 曲高和寡 (Qu Gao He Gua), if it’s too highfalutin, then the quantity of listeners will be too few. I doubt the CHP is going to be recognized for its contributions to the study of Sinology. But as far as introducing so many little-known and complex subjects to a wider audience of “China-curious” listeners, it gets the job done. My most common feedback that I get from listeners, including full-blown China experts, is, “it’s not the history you tell, it’s the WAY you tell it.”
How did you decide which events or figures to focus on in the book, given the complexity of the Warlord Era?
This was such a fragmented time in Chinese history. There were entire “Warlord Worlds” operating within every single province. Most of these mini-warlords had their own thing going on in their corner of China or were one or two notches down from the main warlord of the province. To get too granular with the details and characters would turn most listeners off. I stuck with all the major names and events and gave a couple of examples of lesser-known warlords to offer up an appreciation of the overall dynamic going on during those challenging years. The individual warlords and their outrageous antics are the main event most people want to read or hear about.
How did foreign powers influence the dynamics of the Warlord Era, and how is this reflected in your book?
The Warlord Era was a mega-bonanza for foreign arms merchants. These warlords couldn’t throw enough money at the major European and American weapons dealers. And banks were quick to offer up loans to purchase this equipment. In this respect, foreign involvement was very impactful. The loudest voices in the foreign community were the trading, banking, shipping, and manufacturing companies. All these guys wanted was for China’s problems to not conflict with their interests. The foreign community in China meddled as much as they could in order to ensure the warlords didn’t negatively impact their business (or missionary work). When Yuan Shikai died in 1916, the Battle of the Somme was just about to get underway. The foreign powers had bigger fish to fry at that time. The consequences of the 1919 Treaty of Versailles not only led to the founding of the Communist Party of China, but it also ignited nationalism and student protests in every province. The Warlords couldn’t kill enough of these young people and were always waging a never-ending war with leftist students. And workers too. The foreign powers were unwitting accomplices in how things ultimately played out in China beginning in 1945.
Did you face any difficulties in finding reliable sources or interpreting conflicting historical accounts?
Whenever I use a controversial text, like Gavin Menzies’ books about Admiral Zheng He’s voyages, I always make it quite clear this narrative has lots of detractors. I stick with reliable books, mostly in English but also in Chinese, to validate names, dates, and places. And looking back on the past four hundred episodes, these are pretty uncontroversial topics. I don’t litter my narratives with opinions or snarky remarks. I know where to look for trouble if I want it. When I write these shows, I have invisible silent sentinels looking over my shoulder who I’m aware of at all times. And I’m not going to give them any fodder to attack me for pushing some questionable bit of history or showing some personal bias in the words I use or in the manner in which I say something. With the Warlords book, you’re getting a nice, healthy, and nutritious meal that will leave you satisfied as far as the history it presents and the manner in which it is presented. Being relatively recent and all, the Warlord Era is a well-documented period in history.
Can you discuss the role of regionalism during the Warlord Era and its impact on China’s national unity?
The Republic of China was formally proclaimed on January 1, 1912. But there was no national consensus regarding who the legitimate leaders were. And sadly, there were no Liu Bangs or Li Shimins waiting in the wings to lead the new Republic. By the time the Manchus fell, China was already controlled by the military. And Yuan Shikai wore the one ring that ruled all the regional warlords. As soon as he died in June 1916, it was every regional or provincial warlord for himself. Politically, there were too many factions in China who tragically were unable to unite. With nine out of ten people living out in the countryside, they had been living in survival mode since the mid-19th century. During the Warlord Era, the peasantry were shell-shocked. At a time in the 1910s when China might have been able to emerge from the chaos and humiliations of the past eighty years, the warlords’ gravest impact was in destroying all hope of national unification. Few things enabled the Communist victory in 1949 more than the Warlord Era and then the Japanese invasion. After Mao came along, he got the whole national unity thing all taken care of.
How do you see the Warlord Era shaping modern Chinese history and identity?
I already mentioned, by delaying peace and unity in China, the warlords played a significant role in digging the foundation for the Communists’ victory over the Nationalists in 1949. The warlords’ role in “blocking China’s rise” back then gets played down when compared to the actions of the foreign powers. Look at China’s remarkable achievements today on the world stage. The reason they weren’t standing as high and mighty back then as they do today was due to historical forces that hampered the innate industriousness and capabilities of the Chinese people. Starting with the weak Qing Dynasty government, then the warlords, then the civil war, then Mao’s disastrous political and economic campaigns. Had the Chinese people simply had the benefit of capable leadership and a Pax Sinica beginning in 1912, their rise would have been as spectacular back then as it has been in recent decades. And I have no doubt they would have become the leading global economic power much sooner. The years 1916 to 1928 were extremely important years in world history. Western nations were advancing economically and technologically, despite fighting a world war, and China was drowning in a sea of regional warlordism.
Are there any historical periods or figures you are considering exploring in your future projects?
Right now I’m about knee deep in a new epic series that will explore the history of Singapore from its earliest time in the 14th century up to modern times. By introducing the history of Singapore, I also get to present a little Malay and Indonesian history as well. People with a Eurocentric view of Singapore’s history incorrectly believe it all began with Stamford Raffles in 1819. This part of the world was one of the most vibrant trading economies that went back millennia, as soon as the secrets of the monsoon winds were discovered. I hope by the time I finish this one up early in 2025, my listeners, and later, readers, will be able to get an understanding of Singapore’s history and more importantly, an appreciation for that most incredible of regions stretching from the east coast of India to the South China Sea. And Singapore was located right at the crossroads.
Photos courtesy of Laszlo Montgomery
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